Effective Verses: Heb 1:10-12 and John 12:41

It was a few months ago on a Saturday morning. I was in the basement running on the treadmil -trying to get in some exercise on a Saturday morning before the day really got going. I am about half-way through my workout when I hear the doorbell ring. Morbidly curious, I decide to grab my water, take a quick sip, and jog up the stairs toward the front door. I open the door only to see two plainly dressed individuals, a man and a woman, standing there with Bibles in their hands and a small stack of magazines somewhat concealed underneath. On a quick glance, I noticed two magazines. One had something about health and disease on the cover, and the one underneath had the all-too-familiar Watchtower logo on it. Still, the woman holding them seemed to be concealing it for some reason. Perhaps she felt that if I saw the "Watchtower" logo I would have just slammed the door, and she would not have had a chance to speak.

They asked if I had a moment and started to begin their speech, but I interrupted as gentle as I could and said, "I study the Bible, I am familiar with what you believe, and I thoroughly reject what you teach." Without being able to continue any further, they thanked me for my time, lauded me for being student of the Word, and left. I was a little perturbed. First, I jumped off in the middle of exercising for that! :) Second, this was the first time since we moved to this neighborhood that I had been visited by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Knowing some of the heretical things they believe and seeing just how their deception can come in and steal people away, I was upset. I am upset when I see God dishonored by having His truth dishonored, and I am upset when I see people deceiving others and leading them to destruction.

I know many of as, as Christians, really don't even want to talk with them. Most of the time we just want to shut the door and get them away. Sometimes we will hand them a tract at the door and then close it, thinking that they will actually read it -not knowing that Witnesses will not take materials from us, from "opposers". But let's say you want to reach a Witness and give them something to think about next time they come to your door, or let's say you want to be ready in case an opportunity arises. What is a good approach?

Many of us will turn to John 1:1, a tremendous passage, yet quickly become frustrated to get nowhere with the Witness. They will say, "Oh, but we do believe that Jesus is 'a god', as it says right here in our New World Translation, but we do not believe that Jesus is God." Perhaps we will get into an argument over the Trinity -many times where not only the Witness does not understand the doctrine of the Trinity, but the Christian doesn't either! They will say, "Where does it say 'Trinity' in the Bible?," and sadly the Christian is left irritated and frustrated. However, while there are ways to addess passages like John 1:1 to demonstrate the Deity of Christ, there are a number of other Scriptures that may be much more effective.

In an article by Dr. James White (found here), Dr. White argues that a more effective approach for interacting with Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) is in avoiding all of the "God" or "a god" talk. He advocates going right for places where the New Testament writers identify Jesus as Jehovah by quoting from or referring to an Old Testament passage about Jehovah and applying it to Jesus. There are many examples, but there are a few that are clear enough to make good starting places. We must remember to be gentle, prayerful, and clear. Our goal is to glorify God by the presentation of His truth, and our goal is to present the truth gently in the hopes that God would use our meager efforts to pierce a hole, a tear, in the veil that covers the eyes of the Witness.

We must also try to remain focused. These discussions can tend to jump all over the place. Don't get side-tracked by following down rabbit trails. Push through so that you can reach your final point. In these instances, the point is that the New Testament writer applied something about Jehovah from the Old Testament to Jesus. If that can be rightly done for a mere creature, no matter how exalted, then I'm not sure how we can identify idolatry at all.

By the title above, I do not mean to suggest that there is a formula or that interacting along these lines is as simple as dropping out a proof-text. It takes some work. Don't be fooled by the common delight in "proof-text theology". From what I gather, most Witnesses will come right back with another proof-text, and you will end up volleying back and forth -not really listening to one another and not going anywhere. Instead, learn a few of these examples and learn them well. Study the context. This is critical. Make sure you can follow the context and follow the general thought of the writer. What is the writer's point? What is the overall message?

As Dr. White advocates in the article linked above, you may want to briefly provide an accurate definition of the Trinity (here is a brief definition). Judging from the Witnesses own materials, they usually have a very misrepresented view of the Trinity. This helps cut a few of the initial objections the Witness might have without even getting to them. For example, the Witness might say, "But this passage shows a distinction between God (the Father) and Jesus. How can Jesus be Jehovah if the Father is? Jesus isn't the Father." However, if we pre-empt this and carefully explain that the Trinity fully embraces and even depends upon there being a discernible distinction between the Father and the Son, this avoids the issue. Make sure you can distinguish between a Being and a Person. All things that exist have being, but not everything is personal. The fallacy is the common assumption that "being" and "person" refer to the same cateogy. They don't. Thus, the Trinity is not making an illogical statement at all. We are not saying, "God is One Being and Three Beings" nor "God is One Person and Three Persons." Refer to Dr. White's article for more on that.

Anyway, here are two quick passages that identify Jesus as Jehovah.

1. Hebrews 1:10-12

In these verses, the writer of Hebrews quotes from Psalm 102:25-27, a Psalm directed to Jehovah, and applies it to the Son, Jesus Christ. I will avoid quoting sections from the NWT here as to avoid breaking any copywright laws (I don't know if there are any restrictions, but I can't imagine they would be gracious to me if there are and I broke them). I recommend that you either get yourself a used copy of the NWT (I got one for $2 at a used bookstore), preferably a more recent one (such as 1984), or refer to an online edition here.

A few points to note:

• Use the NWT only. Your point is not to argue about the translation. You are demonstrating that the New Testament writers applied verses about Jehovah directly to Jesus.
• Make sure you are familiar with the context. The subject throughout Hebrews 1 is the Son, Jesus. What is the writer talking about? He is demonstrating the superiority of Christ to the angels and prophets to underscoring the significance of the message of the Gospel.
• Avoid arguing over the translational torturing of verse 8 or their use of "obeisance" instead of "worship" in verse 6. Get right to the point.
• Be familiar with the context of the Old Testament verses the writer of Hebrews was quoting from. It is directly from Ps 102:25-27. It is a prayer to Jehovah. The Psalm is contextually about, even addressed to, Jehovah.
• Note the presence of the column-reference which clearly identifies the Hebrews verses as being a quotation from Psalm 102.
• Ask them why the writer of Hebrews would apply a verse directed to Jehovah to Jesus.
• Ask them how it would not be blasphemous to do if Jesus is only an exalted creature.
• Ask them if Jesus could ever be eternal and unchancing, in contrast to creation, like Jehovah is and as He is described in Psalm 102:25-27.
• In verse 5, it says, "For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say:" The one in view is the Father, that is the "he". We have a contrast being made repeatedly between the Son and angels throughout chapter 1. The writer rhetorically asks, "to which one of the angels did he [the Father] ever say...?", implying that those things said belong only to the Son, and then follows up with a positive statement about the Son. This "positive statement" is what happens in verse 8 where it says, "But with reference to the Son: " and in verse 10, "And: ..." The writer of Hebrews is saying that the Father addresses the Son in these ways, in contrast to angels. Why does the Father essentially address Jesus as Jehovah, by quoting a passage addressed to Jehovah in the Old Testament? If Psalm 102 is only rightly meant toward the Father, then how could the same God who forbids idolatry and blasphemy then apply words uniquely addressed to Himself to a creature?
• Is the writer of Hebrews demonstrating that Jesus is somehow a super-exalted angelic being, or is he demonstrating that Jesus is not an angelic being at all? During the entire passage, the writer is distinguishing between Jesus and the angels. Verse 10, quoting from Psalm 102, uses words that describe eternality and creatorship -things that cannot be ascribed to angels and would not make sense if the writer's argument is merely to establish Jesus as a special (yet created) being. His point in using the passage from Psalm 102 is obviously for the force of the contrast the Psalmist makes between Jehovah and creation. The point being made: Jesus wasn't created.

2. John 12:41

This verse is great, as well. The column-reference in their own Bible shows that John's mention of Isaiah seeing "his glory" (in context, Jesus Christ) is referring to Isaiah 6:1. The only problem is that Isaiah 6:1 depicts Isaiah seeing "Jehovah, sitting on a throne lofty and lifted up, and his skirts were filling the temple." (from Isaiah 6:1, NWT)

A few points to note:

• The one who is spoken of in the context of John 12 is Jesus. He is the "him" or "he" who Isaiah saw. He is the "him" in whom the crowd was not believing. See verses 37 and 42. John's point in quoting the passages from Isaiah in the previous verses is that Isaiah said them specifically in reference to the people rejecting Jesus. Hence, "Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him" (v. 41) is still in reference to Jesus, the one Isaiah prophesied of. This is also evidenced by the fact that one of the Isaiah passages quoted (v. 38) is from Isaiah 53, which is clearly about the suffering Christ, and this corresponds to John's statement in verse 41 that "he spoke about him." This is the same him whose glory Isaiah saw 6 words earlier in the same verse (v. 41 still).
• The column-reference is for Isaiah 6:1. The only Being Isaiah saw in verse 1 is Jehovah. There is no talk of anybody else seen, such as seraphim, until the verses that follow.
• It might be interesting to note that the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, the Septuagint, uses the same Greek phrase "his glory" that John uses here. The New Testament writers frequently quoted Old Testament passages directly from the Septuagint. The use of similar language support the connection.